Set date based on EXIF does not work pre year 1970

[thorstenlemke]

Hello, I use the MacOS toolbox to set the file date. But I will recheck it. Thorsten On 20.06.2012, at 08:46, Wessel Jan wrote: > Hi, > > As promised some more structured testing. > I must say, peculiar behavior. > After restarting the system, Finder displays for testpic2 and testpic3 (dates before 1-1-19070) for all dates Thursday, January 1, 1970 1:00 AM > Changing the EXIF date, changes the modification and creation date in Finder display, and sometimes the time > Setting Creaiion and Modification date according to Exif, changes day and month but not the year, but also touches the time setting it seems. > I hope Thorsten can find something. > > Running OSX 10.7.4 and GC version 8 (868) > > Thorsten let me know if you want me to run some more testing > > > Original data for testpic1: > Created Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM > Modified Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM > Last Opened Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM > > 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date > Setting to 1972 -> Finder displays: > Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM > Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM > Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM > > 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date > Setting to 1971 -> Finder displays: > Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23

[thorstenlemke]

Hi, I checked a bit deeper. The MacOS file manager calls are different. Some calls start at: 1904 as zero and some at: 1970 as zero and the new one is relative to 2001 Thorsten On 20.06.2012, at 08:46, Wessel Jan wrote: > Hi, > > As promised some more structured testing. > I must say, peculiar behavior. > After restarting the system, Finder displays for testpic2 and testpic3 (dates before 1-1-19070) for all dates Thursday, January 1, 1970 1:00 AM > Changing the EXIF date, changes the modification and creation date in Finder display, and sometimes the time > Setting Creaiion and Modification date according to Exif, changes day and month but not the year, but also touches the time setting it seems. > I hope Thorsten can find something. > > Running OSX 10.7.4 and GC version 8 (868) > > Thorsten let me know if you want me to run some more testing >

[Wessel Jan]

Ha, Yes, that can be a bit confusing to a developer, certainly when they return different results. But does that also explain that changing EXIF date also changes the time/date stamp displayed by the Finder? I thought EXIF date was kept inside the file. But as I was showering it occurred to me what the File Creation Time actually is. It is the date/time the Operating/FileSystem was asked to create a file. I.e. either TextEdit, Word, GC, or even the UNIX command "touch" send in a request to create a file. And the Operating/FileSystem then creates a file with a certain timestamp. This timestamp has no relation with the contents of the file. I haven't checked, but it you are copying a picture from one machine to another machine, the other machine will create a new file with a new time/date stamp, and then copy the contents of one file to the other file. So, we should not use the Creation/Modified date/time stamp for our own purposes. (Like sorting on date in the Finder.) And I think GC should not let us change this date/time stamp, and certainly not to a value that the Operating System will reset upon restarting the system. (i.e before 1/1/1970 and after 19 January 2038, as these are the current UNIX limits, although Thorsten's remark about new one relative to 2001 might overcome this) Regards, Jan Wessel On Jun 20, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Thorsten Lemke wrote: > Hi, > > I checked a bit deeper. > > The MacOS file manager calls are different. > > Some calls start at: 1904 as zero > and some at: 1970 as zero > and the new one is relative to 2001 > > Thorsten > > On 20.06.2012, at 08:46, Wessel Jan wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> As promised some more structured testing. >> I must say, peculiar behavior. >> After restarting the system, Finder displays for testpic2 and testpic3 (dates before 1-1-19070) for all dates Thursday, January 1, 1970 1:00 AM >> Changing the EXIF date, changes the modification and creation date in Finder display, and sometimes the time >> Setting Creaiion and Modification date according to Exif, changes day and month but not the year, but also touches the time setting it seems. >> I hope Thorsten can find something. >> >> Running OSX 10.7.4 and GC version 8 (868) >> >> Thorsten let me know if you want me to run some more testing >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Jan Wessel Email adres : jhwessel@xs4all.nl

[thorstenlemke]

Hello, maybe you did check the option: set file date to exif date in the dialog. Thorsten On 20.06.2012, at 09:44, Wessel Jan wrote: > Ha, > > Yes, that can be a bit confusing to a developer, certainly when they return different results. > > But does that also explain that changing EXIF date also changes the time/date stamp displayed by the Finder? > I thought EXIF date was kept inside the file. >

[Wessel Jan]

Hello, I thought I had not checked that option. I reran the test. Results are as you expected. Changing under option 3 also works as could be expected, I didn't note original EXIF date. (I did now with testpic6) So works as designed. (only last opened in first test with setting according to EXIF seems a bit odd, but that did not happen with the next 2 tests) Now I will try again, using dates before 1970. (Testing is a tedious work) Original data for testpic4: Created Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Modified Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Last Opened Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1972 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1971 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:54 AM Modified Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:54 AM Last Opened Monday, May 28, 2012 11:52 PM Original data for testpic5: Created Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Modified Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Last Opened Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1972 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1971 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM Modified Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM Last Opened Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM Original data for testpic6: Created Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Modified Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM Last Opened Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:23 PM From EXIF Date/Time Original: 2008:11:03 09:39:35 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1972 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1971 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Modified Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM Last Opened Monday, January 10, 1972 9:23 PM 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM Modified Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM Last Opened Wednesday, November 3, 1971 9:42 AM On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Thorsten Lemke wrote: > Hello, > > maybe you did check the option: set file date to exif date in the dialog. > > Thorsten > > > On 20.06.2012, at 09:44, Wessel Jan wrote: > >> Ha, >> >> Yes, that can be a bit confusing to a developer, certainly when they return different results. >> >> But does that also explain that changing EXIF date also changes the time/date stamp displayed by the Finder? >> I thought EXIF date was kept inside the file. >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Jan Wessel Email adres : jhwessel@xs4all.nl

[Wessel Jan]

Hello, When setting to dates before 1970, strange things start happening. When I set the EXIF date (and the box is unchecked) the Finder date changes. Setting the EXIF date to 1961 results in the Finder displaying 2098, then setting the file date according to EXIF this results in Finder displaying 2097. Setting file date to 1949 resutls in 2049, but setting it to 1961 results in 2098 There is probably a logic reason for all this, but it got me really confused... I hope Thorsten can understand what is going on here. Original data for testpic7: Created Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Modified Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Last Opened Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:13:41 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1962 -> Finder displays: Created Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM Modified Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM Last Opened Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:13:41 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1961 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM Modified Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM Last Opened Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation:1961:03:03 16:13:41 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Monday, April 8, 2097 11:41 PM Modified Monday, April 8, 2097 11:41 PM Last Opened Monday, April 8, 2097 11:41 PM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 1961:03:03 16:13:41 Original data for testpic8: Created TFriday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Modified Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Last Opened Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:12:04 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1962 -> Finder displays: Created Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM Modified Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM Last Opened Friday, March 9, 1962 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:12:04 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1961 -> Finder displays: Created Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM Modified Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM Last Opened Monday, April 14, 2098 3:02 PM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 1961:03:03 16:12:04 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Monday, April 8, 2097 11:40 PM Modified Monday, April 8, 2097 11:40 PM Last Opened Monday, April 8, 2097 11:40 PM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 1961:03:03 16:12:04 Original data for testpic9: Created Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Modified Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM Last Opened Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:12:20 1. Using GC, Action, Date, Set File Date Setting to 1949 -> Finder displays: Created Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM Modified Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM Last Opened Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:12:20 2. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Set Exif date (Set the file to the EXIF date, too == unchecked) Setting to 1951 -> Finder displays: Created Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM Modified Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM Last Opened Tuesday, March 9, 2049 7:34 AM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 1951:03:03 16:12:20 3. Using GC, Action, Metadata, Ser Creation and Modification date according to Exif -> Finder displays: Created Tuesday, April 8, 2087 11:40 PM Modified Tuesday, April 8, 2087 11:40 PM Last Opened Tuesday, April 8, 2087 11:40 PM From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 1951:03:03 16:12:20 On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Thorsten Lemke wrote: > Hello, > > maybe you did check the option: set file date to exif date in the dialog. > > Thorsten > > > On 20.06.2012, at 09:44, Wessel Jan wrote: > >> Ha, >> >> Yes, that can be a bit confusing to a developer, certainly when they return different results. >> >> But does that also explain that changing EXIF date also changes the time/date stamp displayed by the Finder? >> I thought EXIF date was kept inside the file. >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Jan Wessel Email adres : jhwessel@xs4all.nl

[David L. Wasley]

I completely agree: whatever functionality is needed WRT image dates should be separate and distinct from how the operating system keeps dates of objects it creates and manages within its filesystem.Having spent far too much time looking into the file date issues, I note the following in the Mac OSX File Manager reference manual: ioFlCrDat    The date and time of the file’s creation, in seconds since midnight, January 1, 1904. However, on Mac OS X, if you set the creation date to a date between January 1, 1904 and January 1, 1970, it will be clipped to January 1, 1970, and that is the value which will be returned if you later try to retrieve the creation date.    Note that file systems other than AFP, HFS and HFS Plus do not generally support creation dates.This should make it clear that filesystem dates should not be relied upon for metadata about a file's contents.  EXIF data is an example of where that information should be maintained.  If GC needs to "sort" on EXIF image creation date, than perhaps that can be provided.  Perhaps a "catalog" file showing images and their EXIF image creation date could be created (if it isn't already).Finally, I would observe that the "switch" from 1951 to 2087, 1961 to 2097 and 1962 to 2098 are all approx.136 years which is also approx. the value of the 32nd bit in a 32 bit number representing date in seconds from some zero datum.  (I can't explain 1949 to 2049 except perhaps as caused by something else entirely.)FWIW, DavidOn Jun 20, 2012, at 12:44 AM, Wessel Jan wrote:Ha,Yes, that can be a bit confusing to a developer, certainly when they return different results.But does that also explain that changing EXIF date also changes the time/date stamp displayed by the Finder?I thought EXIF date was kept inside the file.But as I was showering it occurred to me what the File Creation Time actually is.It is the date/time the Operating/FileSystem was asked to create a file.I.e. either TextEdit, Word, GC, or even the UNIX command "touch" send in a request to create a file.And the Operating/FileSystem then creates a file with a certain timestamp.This timestamp has no relation with the contents of the file.I haven't checked, but it you are copying a picture from one machine to another machine, the other machine will create a new file with a new time/date stamp, and then copy the contents of one file to the other file.So, we should not use the Creation/Modified date/time stamp for our own purposes.(Like sorting on date in the Finder.)And I think GC should not let us change this date/time stamp, and certainly not to a value that the Operating System will reset upon restarting the system.(i.e before 1/1/1970 and after 19 January 2038, as these are the current UNIX limits, although Thorsten's remark about new one relative to 2001 might overcome this)Regards,Jan WesselOn Jun 20, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Thorsten Lemke wrote:Hi,I checked a bit deeper.The MacOS file manager calls are different.Some calls start at: 1904 as zeroand some at: 1970 as zeroand the new one is relative to 2001ThorstenOn 20.06.2012, at 08:46, Wessel Jan wrote:Hi,As promised some more structured testing.I must say, peculiar behavior. After restarting the system, Finder displays for testpic2 and testpic3 (dates before 1-1-19070) for all dates Thursday, January 1, 1970 1:00 AMChanging  the EXIF date, changes the modification and creation date in Finder display, and sometimes the timeSetting Creaiion and Modification date according to Exif, changes day and month but not the year, but also touches the time setting it seems.I hope Thorsten can find something.Running OSX 10.7.4 and GC version 8 (868)Thorsten let me know if you want me to run some more testing------------------------------------Yahoo! Groups LinksJan WesselEmail adres :  jhwessel@xs4all.nl------------------------------------Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcmac/<*> Your email settings:    Individual Email : Traditional<*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcmac/join    (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email:    gcmac-digest@yahoogroups.com    gcmac-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    gcmac-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Chuck Boody]

Hi Thorsten, I'm using an Epson Perfection 4490 scanner. You may recall there were issues with it in version 8. Your fix seemed to solve the problem. I believe that was version 8.1. Now I've upgraded to OS 10.7 (lion) and the scanner doesn't work again. I'll try to find your latest beta to check that out, but I though you would want to know. Chuck Boody

[thorstenlemke]

Hello Chuck, did you install the latest EPSON drivers? Thorsten On 21.06.2012, at 00:17, Chuck Boody wrote: > Hi Thorsten, > > I'm using an Epson Perfection 4490 scanner. You may recall there were issues with it in version 8. Your fix seemed to solve the problem. I believe that was version 8.1. Now I've upgraded to OS 10.7 (lion) and the scanner doesn't work again. I'll try to find your latest beta to check that out, but I though you would want to know. > > Chuck Boody > >

[thorstenlemke]

Hello, the EXIF text field does keep the correct input. So, maybe I should clip dates before 1970 for the finder to 1970 and show a note? Thorsten On 20.06.2012, at 12:54, Wessel Jan wrote: > Hello, > > When setting to dates before 1970, strange things start happening. > When I set the EXIF date (and the box is unchecked) the Finder date changes. > Setting the EXIF date to 1961 results in the Finder displaying 2098, then setting the file date according to EXIF this results in Finder displaying 2097. > Setting file date to 1949 resutls in 2049, but setting it to 1961 results in 2098 > There is probably a logic reason for all this, but it got me really confused... > I hope Thorsten can understand what is going on here. > > > > > > Original data for testpic7: > Created Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM > Modified Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM > Last Opened Friday, March 9, 2012 7:34 AM > From EXIF Date and time of original data generation: 2012:03:03 16:13:41